Alan Watt on

"Sweet Liberty" with Jackie Patru

December 8, 2004




Jackie:  Good evening ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for joining us tonight on Sweet Liberty. This is Wednesday. It is the last day of our broadcast week.


The information that I bring you is information I have or I wouldn't be able to bring it to you, so please know that. I don't do this for fun. I don't do it because it's been lifelong desire to be a radio talk show broadcaster host, but I am doing it and I'm doing it out of my love, my hunger and my thirst for the truth and my deep desire to share as I'm learning with you all. On that, our spiritual message tonight is one that I do often and I will continue to do often. I think this is important for us to remember this. There have been so many lies told about Jesus and his time here and his message and then the religion that was made by the priesthood that twisted and torqued the message. We have been given truths in the Bible. However discernment is needed, but so many people say well he came here to shed his blood for us so that we sinners can be saved. Jesus said pretty clearly that as we sow, so shall we reap, and I never read anything in the Bible where he came here to begin a religion. I'll tell you what he said to Pontus Pilot. This is in John 18 where Pontus Pilot was trying to trip him up in that conversation and when Jesus said that my kingdom is not of this world, Pilot, this is in verse 37, he said to Jesus, are you a king? And here's what Jesus answered. According to the scriptures here, folks, he said, "you say that I am a king. To this end was I born and for this cause came I into the world that I should bear witness unto the truth. Everyone that is of the truth hears my voice."


When I think about it I cannot think of a better reason or purpose for us to have while we are in this third dimensional realm in this physical world is to bear witness unto the truth and I know for myself I don't have all the truth, the whole truth and nothing but, and it is a process. It's been a process of discovery for me and the one thing I keep questioning myself and I caution you folks is that when it comes time that we say okay now I've got it, then I think we're in a world of trouble because we're closed off to any further expansion or understanding of what believe we know to be true, so it is a search; and that's enough. I think I've covered that well enough and our guest this evening again is Alan Watt and I just realized I could talk through another 15 minutes and I don't want you to miss the information that Alan has to share with us. Alan, thanks for being here again.


Alan:  It's a pleasure.


Jackie:  It's always our pleasure too. One of the things that you mentioned today when I called you to make sure that our watches were synchronized, I hadn't realized and I don't know if our listeners, all of them, are aware of this, but yesterday being the anniversary of Pearl Harbor and you had said that their code when they were attacking Pearl Harbor was Tora, Tora, Tora. Is there a Japanese word like Tora?


Alan:  We're told that was their word for attack, but we don't really know. I mean it's one of these odd coincidences you have.


Jackie:  That's what I was wondering, the word Torah of course is in the Jews' holy book and I began to wonder well maybe that could be checked out. I mean if the Japanese word for attack is Tora – do you know that, if it is, Alan?


Alan:  I'm not certain but that's definitely what they broadcast as they were going in and they said it three times, which is strangely Masonic because that's how Masonic instructions are. They're always in triplicate.


Jackie: I was trying to do a search for that earlier this evening and I just asked Jeeves do you know what this tora, tora, tora means and it just kept bringing up stuff about the Torah but I found something interesting. The first five books of the Old Testament being the Torah, I wound up in this Jewish website and I think it's called Judaism 101 or something of frequently asked questions, what does tora mean? They said, listen folks, it can have several meanings. The Torah can mean the first five books of the Old Testament, which they call the Book of Moses, or it can be all of that writing in what Christians call the Old Testament, or it can be the first five books of that Old Testament which is their Torah and all of the subsequent writings that make up the entire Talmud. So for Christians who want to put so much emphasis and attention on that Old Testament, Alan, like it's the world of God. You know what I mean? I thought that was quite fascinating and I'll tell you what else they said. They said for the Jews there is no Old Testament, yet they say the reason they're taking all that land in Israel is because it is their biblical mandate. They didn't say Talmudic mandate. They said it’s their biblical mandate. So they claim the Bible when it serves them, don't they?


Alan:  That's what most legalists do. Anything to do with legalism or law is just a matter of picking and choosing what parts you want to use for that particular purpose. That's what law is all about. When you look at the supposed history of how the Old Testament was written, and you've got to remember 2,000 years ago, the Old Testament that they were given was written in Greek. It wasn't in Hebrew. It was written in Greece by a bunch of priests who supposedly were in Egypt around 200, 300 BC. This is the story, 72 priests who happened to be in Egypt wrote it in Greek for the Jews who spoke Aramaic.


Jackie:  They were in Egypt translating it into Greek for the Jews who spoke Aramaic.


Alan:  That's correct. That makes a lot of sense, right? It was a compilation of esoteric stories really, not the exoteric ones, of the mystery religion that had been in existence for a long, long time before that. I mean Moses is just another form of Hermes, basically. Hermes is the truly enlightened figure and so the illumined one can go up the mountain, while the rest of the people, who are the mob, are in the dark, they must stay below. Going up the mountain is symbolic of the illumined one. Moses is just the Egyptian word for child and it's just dropped the Ra, the child of Ra, Ra-moses.


Jackie:  Son of?


Alan:  Yes, child of Ra. It's all esoteric high masonry basically.


Jackie:  Let me hear your take on the "Ten Commandments?"  He went up the mountain and he became enlightened and he came down with the Ten Commandments on these two huge, what do you call them, stones? Then he got ticked off and broke them and had to go get another set.


Alan:  Well, he broke the law.


Jackie:  He broke the law.


Alan:  He was the first guy to break the law.


Jackie:  So that story is an esoteric?


Alan:  Yes, it's all esoteric.


Jackie:  Do you think Moses really existed?


Alan:  No. As I say, it's the same in all the ancient mystic religions. There's always a Moses or a Hermes type figure and Hermes is always related to the god Soth or Thoth in Egypt who was also the one who gave law in writing to the people. Moses is a combination of Hermes and Soth.


Jackie:  Did you say that the esoteric message in there, does that have anything to do with the Kabbalah, the ancient mysteries?


Alan:  Even though the Kabbalah has been added to, especially around the 1500's onwards, it definitely – even Wallace Budge who translated lots of the old Egyptian for the London Museum, he claims that he found much of the Kabbalah already existed in ancient Egypt. It's not a modern thing at all, although it has been added to since the 1500's and it's the same with the Talmud. The Talmud was a Babylonian religion which was taken over, or at least a bunch of people came out of Babylon with an updated religion that was based on the Babylon Talmud. That's when Judaism began.


Jackie:  Did the Pharisees not exist yet?


Alan:  No. Supposedly, according to the mythology, they were taken into captivity from Israel into Babylon where they were there for a couple of hundred years. When they went in they had Levi, the priests, and a set of rituals and so on, basically the Books of Moses or at least the oral tradition of Moses. When they came out they had Talmud, which is now the main book, and they had the Pharisaical priesthood and the Sadducees, which again, as in all these mystic religions, has double meanings. The Sadducees who were the supposed nobility of the supposed Jews and I've no doubt they were the nobility of Babylon that came out there. Their symbol was the serpent and you'll find too in the Jewish traditions of Moses the brazen serpent that he had made to go in front of him with the wings and a serpent on the staff was put into a sacred grove and it was worshiped there basically for a couple of hundred years. The Sadducees, again, have this serpent symbol and remember, too, it's really a Latin term. We're reading a Latinized name here, Sadducees, and if you take the S and put it back into a C, you have the Caduceus.


Jackie:  Caduceus, and that was their staff right?


Alan:  The serpent again, so it's all games and tricks you see and the blind cannot see. That's the whole idea. Those who have no eyes don't see what's right in front of them. They play these games with us all the time. Pharisees is also a play on pharaoh, you see, and Pharis- and Paris is actually the eagle, so that's the royal eagle, basically.


Jackie:  The eagle for whom, the royalty?


Alan:  Yes, the ancient mystery religion which ran Babylon, Egypt and all the old worlds.


Jackie:  Would you pronounce that and you said the Sadducees and then you put a C in it and how did you pronounce that?


Alan:  Caduceus. That's the same symbol you'll see on every ambulance with the serpent round the staff.


Jackie:  It's the symbol of the doctors? American Medical Association et cetera?


Alan:  Yes and if you take the two – generally it's two intertwined serpents, you'll have the figure 8, which is "as above, so below," the two circles, and it's also the double helix of the gene. All of this stuff is highly symbolic and we take it for granted simply because we grew up and seen them everywhere. We never question their origins or what they really mean. If you look at the Greek occupation prior to the Roman occupation of that whole area—we can call it the supposed Holy Land—on the Greek maps there is no Israel.


Jackie:  Oh, I was going to ask you that when you mentioned that they were taken out of Israel into Babylon. Israel didn’t exist at that time, did it?


Alan:  There's no mention in the Persian, Egyptian or anybody else's histories of Israel. On the Greek's maps they had an entire area that was called Edomia for the Edomians. All we can really say is that the whole idea of an Israel began much later with a bunch of people coming out of Babylon.


Jackie: You were explaining the other night, Isis, Ra and El. IS-RA-EL and so if that's the trinity, would then that be a goddess trinity, being Isis, being the mother goddess?


Alan:  It's more than just that. It's the sun, the moon together as the hermaphrodite because even in Judaic religions they have a whole tradition to do with god that is both male and female and again it pre-existed Judaism. Plato also talks about it, that when the god turned one way he was woman and when he turned the other he was man, so he's also hinting at the same esoteric deity that the aristocracy of ancient Greece worshiped. It's the same ancient doctrine.


Jackie:  And they believe that the first man that was made was actually a hermaphrodite?


Alan:  If you were to take it literally – if it was the Creator that made this particular man for the garden, the Eden story--


Jackie:  Male and female created he them?


Alan:  He said in the perfect image of himself he made man, you see. Now if he was male and female, then that's what they're hinting at, that Adam himself would be both, and then they took the female from Adam and he separated the two.


Jackie:  Do you think they were doing some cloning?


Alan:  If you go into the other histories that we're often taught to ignore, such as the histories of India, the Brahmans claim that the Brahmans of Northern India survived a catastrophe in the previous age. They said eventually the area where the Black Sea is was a huge valley which was used as an experimental laboratory where different types of humans were created and it all went sort of awry because they were mixing animals with humans and they started to eat each other, and so what they did was flood the whole valley and that became the Black Sea and that's in their histories.


Jackie:  Then there's where the Khazars came from or at least there's where they landed?


Alan:  You'll find too that that was also like a Miami for the holiday-makers of the nobility of ancient Greece they traveled to and then Rome as well. Always was.


Jackie:  They went to Khazaria for their Roman holidays?


Alan:  That's right, Khazaria by the sea. There's much, much older histories involved here and of course they think that the Troy itself was up that way somewhere, the original Troy, and there's no doubt they have found buildings by submarine. In the last few years they've found buildings one hundred feet or more beneath the surface of the Black Sea and they don't know how far down these buildings go. They're submerged.


Jackie:  Isn't it a possibility that that all got covered up in that big deluge, that big conflagration that Immanuel Velikovsky wrote of?


Alan:  I think this one was more deliberate.


Jackie:  Do they have a timeline as to when it became a sea rather than a city?


Alan:  Velikovsky's explanation would be around 1300 BC and this was prior to that.  As I say, the Old Testament in Masonic parlance basically gives the rules of the game of this system in which we live.


Jackie:  The rules of the game. Big game, right Alan? It's a real game.


Alan:  It's the system. It's a system again based on money, wealth, debt, slavery and so on. It gives all of the rules. It's interesting to note as well that the Pharisees were the black-robed priests when they emerged from Babylon.


Jackie:  Like the judges today?


Alan:  The judges are exactly the same and of course that represents Saturn in the old mystery religion and Saturn was the father of the god; and they're not real gods. They're representatives of parts of the system. That's what Jupiter and so on all mean.


Jackie:  Was it Zeus whose father was Saturn?


Alan:  Saturn in Greek was Kronos (Κρόνος, Cronos, Chronos, etc.), so you go between the Greek and Roman. They have different names for the same thing.


Jackie:  Zeus became Zeus-Pater or god the father and that's where Jupiter came from? The Greeks had Zeus-Pater. The Romans had Jupiter or Jove, which is Jehovah?


Alan:  Yehovah, so it's the same thing.


Jackie:  I remember that you had mentioned too that the story of Moses birth and being put into the brushes, hidden et cetera was an exact take off of the story of Sargon the Elder of was it Babylon?


Alan:  That's right. He had the same story behind him and of course, again, it's a play on words because Cone or Cohen was priest in the Old Testament. That's where King comes from eventually through different dialects, but Cohen was priest and Cain was priest and so when they talk about bulrushes and the canes it's all symbology of a priesthood. It's an esoteric story combined within it.


Jackie:  And the Ten Commandments?


Alan:  Again, I mean there were a lot more than ten, but according to modern Judaism they have the whole Mishnah, which is the oral tradition, which is supposedly is the secret tradition that Moses gave to his followers and that was meant only for – it's crazy because there were no Jews when supposedly Moses gave them this, there was only Hebrews.


Jackie:  And the world Hebrew is the word Habiru?


Alan:  Habiru is the term that came up by the Egyptians of an invading people who came in from the highland areas to the northeast and invaded and took over Egypt for a period. They were vicious mercenaries basically.


Jackie:  The Habiru? And that was the Hebrew, right?


Alan:  That's what historians today think they must be and they do know that some of them had Semitic names, not all of them, though, but the Habiru was a conglomeration of different peoples. It wasn't just one race of people and they were all nomadic initially, until they settled within Egypt, and they were the most tyrannical rulers Egypt ever had and there was a General eventually who started an uprising to kick them out.


Jackie:  The Hyksos are mentioned that way. Is that one in the same people?


Alan:  It's the same thing. The Hyksos refers to another term they went by, and that was shepherd kings.


Jackie:  Okay. This is still the same Habiru?


Alan:  Yes.


Jackie:  So they weren't taken into Egypt and enslaved, that they actually went in to and enslaved Egyptians?


Alan:  There were two forces that came into Egypt at the same time. One from the Mediterranean Sea and they were called the Boat People, and another bunch came by land driving their animals before them and with them. The Hyksos, they often say shepherd kings, but 'Hyks' really refers to cattle, that they drove cattle ahead of them, and Habiru was the mercenaries who backed them up, basically, armed forces.


Jackie:  So the more things change, the more they stay the same because they were the mercenaries.


Alan:  Yes and so they took over Egypt. They slaughtered thousands of the Egyptians and then the Habiru nobility made themselves pharaohs for a couple of hundred years until they were eventually kicked out again.


Jackie:  And the story of the Exodus. Isn't it amazing how they took that worldwide conflagration and wove it into a story around these special chosen people of Jehovah?


Alan:  It's more than that. Again, it's an esoteric story of a group coming out of Egypt, but the real story was to do with Akhenaten priesthood. He was the pharaoh who they claim was the first guy to say that all gods are one and Aton was the god.


Jackie:  And he closed down all of the temples, didn't he?


Alan:  All the Amons and so on.


Jackie:  We're getting to take that break at the half hour. 


Alan: I guess I'll just talk about the Peoples of the Sea and the Hyksos in the meantime and the Peoples of the Sea may have come from the Grecian Islands at the same time as the land invaders were coming across from the east.


Jackie:  I'm listening again. Thank you, Alan. Is there more you wanted to say about this?


Alan:  The esoteric part of the coming out of Egypt is to do with an entire Washington, D.C.-size bureaucracy, the priests who had their brand new city of Amarna destroyed, and they were forced out basically. They were an Egyptian priesthood and of course they were following Akhenaten, basically. That was the real esoteric story behind it, that all God is one, you see. They called themselves slaves to the god or servants. They were public servants. That's where the term comes from and so that's what all the high Masons know of the truth of the coming out of Egypt and what it's all about. It's their system that was to take over the world coming out of one country and moving elsewhere.


Jackie:  I have a book called "Thirty Thousand Gods Before Jehovah" and it's a very fascinating book and it told a lot of the language that you had told us how words are made and what they mean. Even our alphabet has its own little code and then they mentioned the Caduceus and according to this book, they referred to the L and they used that name a lot. They showed how often so many names end in L or begin with L, meaning God, that this priesthood is the one that actually even set the boundaries where before there were no political or national boundaries and that they actually went and set boundaries and actually changed the language. They said that is why so many of the languages have similarities, but their passport to every country that they went was the Caduceus and that was the staff with the serpents around it and they took translators with them because there were translators that could speak every language of every nation and they call them the bounds. I mean they literally set nationhood. I mean you've talked about that before, that they're the ones that dreamed up the nations because if there weren't nations there wouldn't be countries fighting against each other.


Alan:  And you could not have a nobility arising


Jackie:  Ruling over a nation.


Alan:  There has to be a government because governments say that themselves, that their first reason for existing is to protect the people against those guys over there.


Jackie:  They set up all these boundaries and now their intention is to destroy all the boundaries?


Alan:  Yes, because they claim that the Great Work or this part of the Great Work came to these enlightened guys around 4,000 BC. That's what they claim and that's also part of Judaic or Talmudic law, that the Great Work was begun 4,000 BC.


Jackie:  6,000 years ago. The rabbis claim that they know the exact time and date that the world was created.


Alan:  In a sense they do because it's the system they're talking about.


Jackie:  Okay, their world.


Alan:  It's the beginning of the system.


Jackie:  It's amazing because I remember when you were with us so often back there late '98 early '99 and that was the first time I had even known anything about "international priesthood" and now in so many books that I read the priesthood is mentioned and I've just never seen it before.


Alan:  It's all coming out now, but they definitely existed and when you do check out the esoteric traditions of the elite of Jewry you'll find the same esoteric traditions with the ancient elite of Greece and Rome and of the present nobility of Europe and the States. It's the same ancient tradition and religion within them all, so there is one religion running the whole show here.


Jackie:  I wrote a little note down last night. A thought that came to me, actually it's a friend of mine who was listening to another broadcaster and then said that she doesn’t listen anymore because there's too much negativity. I won't mention names because I'm not saying this to be unkind, but that a lot of times it's said there was nothing you're going to be able to do about it and she said why would he even be on the air if he tells all this terrible stuff and says there's nothing you can do about it. Really, Alan, as far as doing something about it, what does one do?


Alan:  Obviously, if you live in a complete iron-clad system you can't do anything about it if you use the methods that are given to you. There's no point in complaining about it because nothing is going to change the agenda that's well underway, especially at this phase of it, and so there's no point in complaining to your representatives. They all belong to a political party and their boss is the guy at the head of the party and since they're all social climbers they're not going to go against their party. They'll do what they're told. In fact, I believe they just passed the second Patriot bill, today was it?


Jackie:  I brought up an email today from yesterday that said that it had passed the House and that it was expected to pass the Senate today.


Alan:  Three thousand pages of laws and nobody read it, so that tells you what your representatives are.


Jackie:  How could anybody have read it?  Three thousand pages?


Alan:  I know but it was the same with the first one when they were told that they'd be unpatriotic if they read it.


Jackie:  And yet, here we are, doing these radio broadcasts, sharing information, hopefully bringing truth, understanding and awareness to people. There are people who are led at certain stages of their understanding and their awakening, I guess, to do certain things. Ken and I talked this weekend that I was at one point for an example the people that get into the "law" and I think how futile. I have this knee-jerk how futile to take a case into a court where they're so corrupt and yet it occurred to me one time that it is not for me to judge what other people are made to do because maybe it is a compilation of all of the little things that each individual does that makes the difference.


Alan:  Well, definitely using the system, which is law, you see, it might be important for that individual in that sense, but technically it isn't going to change the agenda.


Jackie:  It won't change the agenda but maybe if enough people are awakened. You had said this for example about the Federal Reserve system but when I challenged you because I thought Tupper Saussy's idea was pretty cool that people within the state would have the IOU that they would present for fines or fees et cetera, taxes, in the state, and say as soon as we have gold and silver coin we intend to pay. You had said no, it's not going to work. I said well at least it's something and you said no because you cannot get out of the system by using their system. Gold. They own and control the gold. They might not own it all but they certainly control it.


Alan:  They also fix the prices of it.


Jackie:  That's what I was going to say, the value.


Alan:  FDR confiscated the gold. They can confiscate anything they want.


Jackie:  But one of the things that you said that took a long while to gel for me, when you said that you cannot get out of the system by using the system and that makes sense and then I said okay well then what is your solution and you said – this is what took a while to gel. That as soon as enough people understand it, it will collapse of itself, because you bring something like this into the light of awareness and understanding and it can only exist in the darkness out of which it was created and that it's up to each and every one of us as individuals how we be.


Alan:  How we be and everything boils down to individual choices as to where you are in your life or on your journey and it's true enough. Here's your mirror image. There's no doubt about it that you do come out of the darkness into the light and when you come into the light then your mind, your body, your spirit, your soul all act in unison and you do begin to radiate something from yourself to others. Your abilities are definitely increased. As Arnold Toynbee said in his international meeting of the World Socialist Party, and he taught the Rhode Scholars and he was one of the one-worlders of his day at Oxford University, but he said that a person who's awake can think a thought that will be picked up all over the world simultaneously as it's being thought; it's instant. They know that this actually works and we again in a scientific age, as they try to atheise the public in order to control them, we tend to forget that there are other forces at work here in this realm and there's no doubt about it. As you truly wake up you'll find that synchronicities become more than just synchronicities and you can actually think about something and you'll hear people suddenly spontaneously discuss it the following day, and I'm sure that it would never pop into their heads unless you'd thought the thought in the first place. This is the power of thought in itself and for thought to be pure and powerful it has to come from someone who is awake, and I don't mean just partly awake or they think they're fighting the New World Order and trying to preserve the old because the old was never theirs either. It's all stages.


Jackie:  To fix it or to turn this thing around, heck, why would we want it turned around?


Alan:  You can go back to the debt system of today or whenever. It's the same con game, but for these people to play their godhood role, as they truly want to do, they must conquer every mind on the planet because you can't be ultimate and supreme or a god if there's somebody left standing that you haven't conquered.


Jackie:  Yes and you brought that up. It’s out of George Orwell's "1984" and I could not figure out why when they caught Winston Smith why they spent so much time torturing him until he finally could actually see that three fingers were four or whatever it was and then they killed him.


Alan:  That's right. It's not good enough they said that you tell me that, you must believe it.


Jackie:  When I was questioning you about it but I couldn't figure out why they didn't just kill him in the first place that was what you brought up. Everybody, before they are counted successful by their own measurement, every mind has to be controlled by them.


Alan:  Every knee must bow. That's what they're after to themselves and they will coerce and cajole and use force where required until everyone does it. They tend to use coercion until you have to go into a certain direction, but ultimately they use force on those who do not.


Jackie:  Let me ask you this because this thought went through my mind is that it also comes down to the emotional energy that we put out, so when we are living in fear, when we're living in hatred, when we're living in anger, we are actually feeding the beast, the system.


Alan:  Oh absolutely. They're like vampires.


Jackie:  Spiritual vampires.


Alan:  This whole system is fear based. That's why there are no certainties in life except the fact you're going to pay taxes and die.


Jackie:  So people have asked me how can you not hate them, I've just said I've chosen not to and if I do hate I'm not aware of it, because I know we can fool ourselves sometimes, but what they do is they go back to the Bible and say well Jesus said we are supposed to hate. You know, love the sinner but hate the sin or something. Well that word is a pretty strong word and would you comment on that?


Alan:  The only part in the New Testament where – Christians for such a long time have been taught this strange thing of turning the other cheek and of course I'm sure that was added in there – and the Bible has been updated so many times, even from the earliest times. In fact reincarnation was its natural functioning up until the 6th century AD, the Second Council of Constantinople, they decided to take that out of the Bible.


Jackie:  Under Justinian. I've got a paper on that but I've tried to do some research basically on the Internet and I can't find anything that verifies that.


Alan:  You'll find it in the Vatican papers if you go into the Catholic website because the Vatican admitted that. In fact, recently they gave an apology for having removed all this in the 6th century. They gave a public apology. It was earlier this year in fact.


Jackie:  So literally removing references in the New Testament referring to reincarnation?


Alan:  Yes.


Jackie:  Well, I'm glad to hear that confirmed here because it makes sense to me and there are a couple of places in there it looks like they may have forgotten about or left in on purpose.


Alan:  That's why there are so many contradictions. The Catholic Church you must remember was actually the Roman Empire. They transferred from military might to psychological might; power over the mind was much easier and actually more effective than armies and so they kept updating and removing and so on parts of the New Testament.


Jackie:  And put words in Jesus mouth that would tie the New Testament back to the Old Testament and then that proves to people that the Old Testament is the world of God.


Alan:  Yes, even though they did leave in, he says, I come to fulfill it and this is the new covenant. He gave the new covenant. This is brand new.


Jackie:  You mentioned that one night and we really didn't get into it because you said the New Testament was the new covenant. In other words, from my understanding the Christians believed that Jehovah of the Old Testament being "God" that when Jesus came the new covenant was made and that it is the same god that it's just a different system now.


Alan:  He never mentions Jehovah.


Jackie:  I know but he said something about I did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. Well, to me I believe he was talking about the universal law of creation.


Alan:  Very possible.


Jackie:  I don't think he was talking about the man's law.


Alan:  There's simply no comparison between what he was teaching in his day to the Old Testament. There's no comparison at all. I mean the Old Testament was an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and all that kind of stuff and traditions.


Jackie:  And wars and slavery and killing and slaughter.


Alan:  Get rich and all that, and he preached the opposite to all of that. There's no comparison whatsoever and of course that's why modern Jewry claimed that he was – that's why he was killed, because he was preaching against all of their beliefs. He was a heretic of that time.


Jackie:  You said that he had studied the mysteries and he became a renegade?


Alan:  He was openly (I say openly) but it was for those amongst the listeners who could understand the esoteric behind the stories that he was getting, but he was getting it out to the public and these were sacred things that were to be kept for inner religion.


Jackie:  They didn't want people to know that.


Alan:  People don't realize that the Pharisees were a brotherhood unto themselves and they had their own esoteric religion just for the Pharisees.


Jackie:  Those would be the Levites?


Alan:  Not Levites. They were no Levites by then.


Jackie:  Those priests really raked in, didn't they, in the name of Jehovah? It counts all the gold and silver that was brought to them and all the animals and all the first of this and first of that, as though it were going to be given to "Jehovah" and the priests were just getting filthy rich.


Alan:  Yes they were and they were also really enslaving the people because as Jesus said the people are so bound down with man made laws; you wouldn't believe how many rituals they had to go through in a day. People were being bound down with all of these laws and rules and so on that they could hardly get a days work done and if they broke any of the taboos (that's what it was all about, taboos), they had to go and cleanse themselves and so on before they could start all over again. Meanwhile, as Jesus said, you make all these laws that bind down my people but you don't follow them yourselves; so we're back to the old hypocrisy business which is ever present with us. However, the Pharisaical sect were a sect and they had an esoteric religion for themselves, which were not shared with the people they lorded over. They claim to possess the secret laws of Moses at that time, which became the Mishna, and they have dozens and dozens of other laws and rules that Gentiles have never heard of. It's far more complicated than the school system we've all been brought up in to believe and as I say there's no trace of an Israelite people ever having existed in the ancient records of well-established empires that existed supposedly at the same time as Israel and before it. The Persians took copious records. The Egyptians – they're still digging up records from all the different parts of the empires that they ruled and there is no Israel mentioned anywhere.


Jackie:  We only have a couple of minutes left. Do you observe Christmas?


Alan:  Not for me. I mean it's just – in fact, it's well admitted that's simply the turn over into the spring when the sun hangs in the air for three days. It doesn't go any further north and then it starts all over again. It starts going further north, so that was always the ancient tradition.


Jackie:  Some people say he was born in April. Some say he was born in October and I guess it really just doesn't matter what the name was but the fact that there was a very deeply loving spirit that came to this world to bear witness unto the truth.


Alan:  It was to show a way.  What he was showing was all of the ways to defeat the system. 


Jackie:  Well, Alan, we just got our one minute warning here and I want to thank you for being on with us and you will be back, yes?


Alan:  Yes, I will.



(Transcribed by Linda)