June 3, 2007


"Episode: Bilderberg, Elites and The Navigators"





Henrik: A warm welcome to Red Ice Creations Radio, my name is Henrik Palmgren, I'm the editor and webmaster of and this is our internet talk radio show, recorded from the west coast of Sweden. You can join us every Thursday and Sunday for our regular programme, and don't miss out on our subscriber section if you want to have full access to our growing archive of radio shows. Today we have our monthly regular guest, Alan Watt, from, back with us on the programme. We're a bit off in our schedule - Alan's usually with us the last Sunday of each month - but because of some work on film projects at our end we're about a week off here. But that's ok, any time's a good time to talk with Alan. Today I would like to begin to talk about the Bilderberg group or the conference, their annually held meeting is usually some time during the month of June, and as far as we know it's ongoing right now as of this recording, and probably going to be going on through the entire weekend here, so this is a good opportunity to spend some time talking about this group - and a lot more stuff - with Alan. Well, I'd like to say welcome back to the programme, Mr Watt, thank you so much for joining us again, I hope that things are good and you are well.


Alan Watt: Yes, I'm well.


Henrik: Excellent, nice to have you here again. Now as I say we have the Bilderberg meeting ongoing, as far as we know, right now. It's usually in the month of June, the location of the meeting this year is in Istanbul, Turkey and the Bilderberg group is a think-tank, I've also heard it being referred to as a kind of steering committee that meets once a year in various locations around the globe, actually in the western hemisphere, I think, where allegedly everything from international matters, business, politics, economics and a whole lot of other stuff are discussed at this meeting. It's a known secret meeting, as it were, with politicians, media moguls, CEOs, members of European royalty and a whole lot of other people who would be referred to as elites, I guess: rulers, or what not. Alan, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the history on the Bilderbergers and their track record, so to speak. I know that it was started in '54 and that name relates to the hotel that they were first meeting at in the Netherlands. We have hints here and there about what is being discussed at these meetings, not sure if there are any full reports from the inside. I know that they were in Ottawa, Canada, last year, and we've been talking about many different groups and clubs and societies, secret and not, on this show, so I would ask you, Alan, would you consider this group to be of any particular importance, if you were to compare them from a conspiratorial viewpoint, with other similar groups?


Alan: Long before World War Two came along, in fact it was the time of World War One, the elite of Europe, especially Britain, discussed the coming what they called democracies, of which hadn't existed in their present form at that time, and they knew they'd have to appease the people with a form of what would appear to be democratic government on the outside where they could vote. Mind you that's the only right we get, is to vote. We don't get the right in making decisions on what's to be voted for when the bills all go through, and they never let go of power. There is an establishment, as they call it, in Britain, which has never lost hold of power, never intends to, it's a eugenic run society, you might say, where the most successful is the one where the most successful families, intergenerationally, who've caught wealth and power and held on to it, who've shown their worth in the Darwinian viewpoint, to be where they are.  Prior to World War Two coming along they'd already set up the basic foundations to run a parallel government, which actually pushed towards global government. It goes way back in history to the 1500’s and actually before – the 1500’s was when it came out into the open, where they wanted a British Empire based on free trade, and they even gave the term 'most favoured nation trading standard', which they still use today in the UN treaties you'll notice. They set up a pyramid structure after World War Two of think-tanks, with certain think-tanks at the top that would be doing the steering - they're called the navigators - at the top. At the top you have one of them which plans the future and the society that will be introduced in that future with the culture and everything else to go with it. That's from entertainment all the way down, and it's comprised of very large media moguls who participate with the planners, the navigators, and that's the club of Rome. That think-tank then gives out their policies to the lower think-tanks, there are thousands of them ultimately, that then work them into being - they call it making it so, making it be - and one of the groups, which then goes over the major strategies and discusses how it is working, if any alternations need to be made, is the Bilderberg group. The Bilderberg group always has members of royalty attending, they have the members of the banking institutions attending because they have to finance it. H. G. Wells wrote about this particular structure before it was named, in fact in some of his writings, he said we shall need to bring the bankers on board because they understand economics and will have to finance this global system, so the Bilderbergers, remember the high institution that runs this build the future, and so they named the hotel long in advance for the meeting and they called it the builder. They build the mountain, the berg, and that's what it means, so if you also take future Prime Ministers and Presidents before the public even hear their names of them and ask them to attend then they are accepted, they're vetted, they're okayed – they'll get to become President or Prime Minister, before the public even know their names.


Henrik: That's interesting about the name, because that's one question that they wanted to put to you over here and that's the fact that the story goes that some don't know the name of this guy that stumbled upon this group, and what I found interesting was that they consequently called themselves the Bilderberg meeting because this is a group that has been named by someone from the outside...


Alan: In a sense, or else they'll delete it out, or put a false story through; they're very particular about their names. They love these names, they're sort of little jokes on the public.


Henrik: Yeah, because when we look at the official, there is one circulated report, there's a picture of that on Wikipedia from the 1980 Bilderberg conference in Bad Aachen in Germany. There's one fax that was circulated from the Brook Street Hotel in Ottawa last year. This was the member list fax that was sent to the hotel there and on that fax it also said the Bilderberg meeting, so that's still very much the official name, but then again, if someone were there, stumbling upon this meeting, one would think that they had named themselves something else before the first meeting.


Alan: They were on the go long before they eventually came out in the open in the 1950’s.


Henrik: I don't know if this is worth mentioning, but in a sense, could that imply in some ways that this particular group is there to draw our attention away from other groups? I referred to it before our meeting, that this particular group has gotten in the last few years more media attention than a lot of other meetings and it's been a popular 'conspiracy'. What's your take on that?


Alan: It's not really. What it is, is the gradual...they wrote about this again in the early 1900’s, and they said that the unelected ruling groups, a parallel government, would eventually, at the right time, that the public would accept it, they would start to show themselves more often, they call themselves hidden masters, their old joke, and everyone below them parroted 'hidden masters' thinking it was something occult, but in reality they've always been here. The public are now being trained – because they will accept it, we're too socialised now, they will accept a world of experts running them, they've had 40/50 years of indoctrination along this path. Most of them don't participate in elections or politics, they don't even care what's really happening in their own countries. They're quite ready now for these people to come forward, more officially, as a parallel government.


Henrik: So this is the plan, we've been named the Bilderbergers giving that implication, on a more psychological level, that these are the big boys, these are the rulers. But would you say, because you referred to them as the navigators, in that sense would you say that the guys and gals attending the Bilderberg conference are these navigators?


Alan: They are a slightly lower order. At the top they say that the hidden ones - the masters themselves, the captains of the ship - will not come forward until it's the right time, in other words – when the public are so dumbed down, so docile, that they can come forward in safety. In the meantime they use the ones that are officially titled already in the public's eyes, so they still report to the ones above them. If you look down, in fact, where the banks are in England, if you go up one of the high buildings and look down, you'll see the banks with the obelisks they got from Egypt, and you'll see the temple bar of the Knights Templars which is the exchequer or the British treasury. However, you'll also see where the roads come together when you look down the pavement, or the sidewalk, is in the form of a ship, and that deliberately was called the 'Ship of State'. England was the one chosen to be the Ship of State, the navigator that will point the way. This is all stuff well understood in the top circle and unknown to the general public.


Henrik: This is in the City of London you're talking about, right?


Alan: Yes.


Henrik: There's some very interesting connections you bring up the Knights Templar, the Temple Bar, and all of this. I really began to look into the history of some of the names of some of the attendees there and I came upon one name: Gordon Richardson, former governor of the Bank of England, and just on a side note here, but in 1946 he was called into something called the Greys Inn, and this is basically an area where they have all the manors of something called the Middle Temple, the Inner Temple and Lincoln's Inn also this area where the Temple Bar, where all the barristers are gathered, and one of the names they referred to was Greys Inn called the Manor House and it was the property of someone called Reginald the Grey or the first Baron Grey de Wilton.  I don't know if you've heard of this, but it all seems to connect with something called the Order of the British Empire and the Knights Templar, of course.


Alan: Yes, the Order of the British Empire is still dished out every year to certain people, and people in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc., everyone who's at the top of your culture creation department gets awarded the Order of the British Empire. The OBE. The grey part we're told about the Templars, the man in charge of the British Treasury even today, appointed by Parliament, is still called the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Now the checker is the chessboard, in fact it's the courtyard inside the Temple Bar: walk into it and it's actually a floor which is a chessboard, and that's where the Templars used to draw loans: giving out loans and getting back interest, they used to put out, that's how they worked out their profit and loss on that floorboard, so even today the one in charge is still called the Chancellor of the Exchequer, from the dates of the Knights Templar, it hasn't changed. The grey one, in masonry, in high masonry, the grey man is the man who walks between the two realities: the one the public sees and the one the public doesn't see, between the black and the white squares, there's a shade of grey. Grey men are those who are given higher orders, which few on the other side will ever know.


Henrik: Now, I'm very glad that you mentioned this, and I'm going to stretch things a bit here, but nonetheless I'm going to give it out and see what's your take on it. It’s very interesting that you mentioned the grey, because one of the members that I came across - and this leads down two different avenues here - one of the members I came across, who was a member of the Inner Temple, was Bram Stoker, who of course made Dracula known, he wrote that story. The question, or the comment, here is: I've heard that some of these guys were maybe handling the gene technology several hundred years back, which could actually lead a person, or several persons, to actually being able to extend their own lives, meaning that some of these guys at the top might actually be several hundred years old. I don't know - this is just an idea I threw out there, I've heard it through other channels, I don't know if you mentioned it, or not ... and one interesting thing here, that I just wanted to connect with - greys and the theme of the greys is, of course, that we have this popular idea, the image of what is known as the grey alien, and the entire story here seems to mud together and it's a weird kind of mythological aspect on all of this, of course, what's your take on this, about the genes and stuff like that?


Alan: What we do know, what we can trace, that's documented, is there was a Rosicrucian Manifesto, that came out in the time of Queen Elizabeth I. court - it was the first openly Rosicrucian Masonic court, that had come out in the west - and all of her advisors were Rosicrucians, and the only thing that they allowed the public to know was that those who served the ‘Great Work’, as they called it. The Great Work goes back to Plato, and before him, to Pythagoras - and anyone who served it would be given a life extension, we do know that. Sure enough, the main members you'll find in history: Benjamin Franklin and others, were given not just life-extensions, they were very potent right up into their eighties: they were a hit with the ladies, and so on, they had no problems in these areas. Today we watch the higher guys like Kissinger, Maurice Strong, they're both in their late seventies or eighties, globetrotting a good fourteen, sixteen hours a day, with tremendous energy. And many, many more: Michael Sharpe, who was a guy in Canada who picked politicians - they had to go through him before they were okay-ed, passed to go up the ladder. He died at his desk, working fourteen hours a day in his nineties in Canada, no previous old-age problems, none of them had old-age problems, he literally died in his sleep – like the Queen Mother at a hundred years of age. As far as gene technology goes, we know that Francis Bacon wrote about that in the novel, 'The New Atlantis', where he described America, and that's what it was about: the country to be born in the west that would have a form of republican democracy on the surface that would in reality be run by a secret group of scientists. He talked about being shown in, in the last chapter of the novel, there's a laboratory underground where they could create different life species by taking minute pieces of life and combining them together – now, they weren't talking about grafting, and they said that they could actually create any kind of animal and know what the end product would be by mixing the different smallest particles of life before it was completed. So, in other words, it wasn't a new thing. This was written in the days of candlelight to write with, the horse and buggy and sails on ships. He also talked about a machine that controlled the weather, so that was written in the late 1500’s and published in 1602. The whole thing is, of course, the Rosicrucians at the top, like the Royal Society of England, which still exists today, was entirely composed of Rosicrucians and eventually freemasons.  They led all of the research into astronomy and genetic research and so on, they dish out the grants from the different foundations to the scientists to explore certain areas. And as far as Grey goes, we know that the novel based on Dorian Grey, the legend follows the same lines, of a man could live for as long as his portrait didn't change, he'd always stay young. You have a lot of little clues along there, but no proof as such that they could live hundreds of years, at least not that group.


Henrik: Exactly. My connections there are a bit obscure, I know that at least I'm jumping from Dracula to the Grey Alien, but my consensus, or my idea of that, is just explaining that, if that is the case, people might be living at least longer than the average human being. We have several things connecting there: we have the myth of the Greys returning, as going back to the region of the Grey, like a kind of reincarnation or that these people themselves, the Greys from the beginning are living on as the reincarnation.


Alan: Yes, they do like to put this stuff out, whether it's true or not we just don't know. We do know they have their own religion at the top, they certainly promote it to us, that is, to do with reincarnation. We know the Ancient Romans, that the wealthy families believed that they came back in the same lineage as their family, so they technically had the Lares, the fires going on in the cellar so they could watch the spirits of their ancestors, and when they died, they could become their great grandson in the future. The pharaohs also had that same mythology. Especially when the pharaoh was dying or had just died, they would bring in the son and lay him next to the sarcophagus and they would perform the opening of the mouth ceremony, the idea being that the father could literally transmigrate as opposed to simple reincarnation: the spirit could leave the father and go into the son, so the son could have more than one spirit in him. That was one of the myths, or rumours, that they put out as to why they were so clever: they could incorporate the wisdom of their fathers, and their fathers before them.


Henrik: Even better. Who knows if it's true or not?


Alan: We were talking about genetic research, one of the biggest and best mathematicians that Britain had in the late 1800’s/late 1900’s was Rutherford, and Rutherford, in his own memoirs, wrote about being employed in his last years as a mathematician working for scientific research in England on genetic research. Now that was back in the 1920’s, and yet, supposedly, they hadn't discovered the gene until much later. That's in his own biography. Now, why would you need a mathematician if you could not see them, and you couldn't count them, for instance? That tells you that they did know this stuff back then.


Henrik: Do you know anything about a guy called Henry Wellcome? This is something known as 'The Wellcome Trust', and this was allegedly one of the funds for the human genome project or one of the leading foundations that helped to develop and map the human genome.


Alan: It's related to the Wellcome Pharmaceutical company. The human genome project is typically masonically worded. Genome, if you speak it, is a gnome: a little person. They've been mapping the genes of the common people, but now they're admitting that they've been doing it since the 1950’s, at least. They want to know all the different gene types of the common people.


Henrik: Definitely. Being able to map out the human organism in that way and being able to... again there's this idea that they implemented that you can beforehand look at if people are going to have traits of being a criminal or an alcoholic, or whatever, and they can either remove that or the entire person, before they even come into the world.


Alan: That's the whole purpose. Those guys at the top are eugenicists. Part of their religion is based on eugenics, and the superiority of different races or casts of people. They've always been into this, and they've never changed – there's no reason why they should change this. However, they do want to map the common people for a future, more efficient society to serve them better.


Henrik: We're going to return to the Bilderberg meeting. Do you know if any of the things – or many of the things – that are discussed during these meetings are something that we can see being implemented – we can go back one year, or several years. I'm saying this because during the last meeting, in Ottawa in 2006, the depopulation agenda was apparently brought - or at least overpopulation was discussed and addressed as a problem – we need to find a solution for this in some way - and I can certainly see that the idea of overpopulation is being introduced more and more by the day.  Do you know if there's anything more beyond that - or maybe verify what I just said there – that is being discussed at these meetings?


Alan: Yes. They've had a mandate since they begun, it's always been the same mandate, with the same goals, they have never varied their goals: they knew the world they wanted to bring into existence a long, long time ago. And the world, apart from being more efficient, also using science to guide the people and also to alter the people through different phases, physically, biological, the other phase was also to depopulate the people. Now, they've been doing it since the 50’s through inoculation – there's no doubt of that whatsoever. We have no doubt: the statistics show it, since the fifties, especially, with polio vaccines and all the rest of it, you'll see people now coming down with elderly diseases, even in adolescence now, crippling arthritis and juvenile arthritis and things like this. The sperm count in the male has dropped 75% since the 1950’s, three-quarters sterile already. The fastest growing business in America is the fertility clinic - male and female. Biologically we're seeing biophysical effects in the young males and females: they're different than they were fifty years ago at the same age. The hips are disappearing in the female, the guys are becoming very narrow-framed, and the guys are becoming more effeminate. These biological changes have taken place because the brain itself and the various glands in the body were targeted by bio-warfare techniques through inoculations. They could never come out and tell the public the truth now, they could never ever admit to it, to what they've done. What you find when you go through history now is that when these people have their big meetings and fund groups to promote something or do something, they will do it.


Henrik: Yes, they will just do it. Some of the researchers referred to it, there is meticulous documentation of every little step and move and stuff like this, but in a way all these people have to do actually is just do it: follow up and implement it. They don't have to instigate it in any way, or document it. There might be documentations, as you say, but the documentation in this sense might be whatever: the UN reports on fertility, or how many people are sterile... I don't know.


Alan: In a day of crisis – there's crisis creation everywhere – this is a time of crisis creation – every year the United Nations comes out with statistics, and they always comment that it's out of their hands – that something's happened out of their hands, but they reel off the sperm count in the males that's dropped, and have no comment on it. In fact, there's your proof that it's meant to be, or there would be a comment on it.


Henrik: That's right. Then a group would be assessed to this problem: that okay, we need to take care of this problem, and research it and implement it. You have no idea if something's going on, on that level, do you?


Alan: No, there are none. All you have are the population reduction groups, run through various so-called pro-feminist organisations, like Planned Parenthood that was started by Margaret Sanger, so it was funded by the top foundations, she was a supporter of Adolf Hitler's policies and Stalin's polices and she was also a eugenicist: she wanted all inferior types killed off. She started off the whole planned parenthood agenda. All these characters are funded from the same source, the United Nations has massive departments to do with depopulation, but nothing to do with population, or repopulation. That's your clue about the great, big, wonderful United Nations.


Henrik: So we might be fooling ourselves if we're looking for a big bomb, so to speak, a big event where: okay now we can see that X amount of people have been eradicated, or whatever. We're looking for a big event that takes away a lot of people as proof of the depopulation agenda, but again, as you say, this is more proof of a tippy-toe tactic of this slow-moving implement, of a plan that stretches for, 50 to 100 hundred years, maybe, and in a few years down the line we could then see the hockey-stick statistic, when this takes off, and babies aren't born, and such.


Alan: Yes. Thomas Malthus wrote his essays on population and population control. He was one of the first of the big economists for the British royalty and the corporations they run, like the British East India Company. He also was an economist for most of the European royalty, and he wrote his essay on population reduction, basically. In his suggestions he talked about Britain, Britain and other countries had colonies where they used slaves or very low-paid workers across the world and he had it all worked out, right down to the diet, and what kind of diet you feed them to keep them just functioning but not too bright: just strong enough to do the work but not strong enough to walk off to another plantation for better conditions. This was done with meticulous detail, he was the one who wanted socialism to take over so that he could actually dominate the people, and the people themselves would pay for public housing, which would be built on unhealthy areas like swampland, where the conditions would start to kill them off, especially the very young. This was all advocated in the treaties of the 1700’s, it's never really stopped; the elite have always been concerned about losing control over the people if it hits a magic number.


Henrik: And I guess during a period, fifty/sixty/seventy years back there was an interest in having a lot of people around for the ability to have them as workers: building and constructing a lot of stuff, implementing the industrial age up to the point we're at now, maybe. So for a period, do you think there was an interest in having a lot of people around to be able to implement the kind of industry they have now?


Alan: That's right. They knew really, even part way through the industrial era, that it wouldn't last forever, that they would move offshore to cheaper places. Even then at the height of the industrial era they were planning the population reduction to follow, and sure enough it was around World War Two – that's when they had signed, in the treaties of Word War Two, to start in the industrialised countries like Britain in preparation for the European Union, and in 1948 they set up governmental departments in every country in Europe that worked steadily on total integration of Europe, with population reduction to follow, with common regulations to do with inoculations especially - which is interesting - and you'll see the population falling at the same rate in most countries. It wasn't just because people had more money to spend to buy a car, or whatever, it was also the fact that they were becoming more infertile.


Henrik: This is interesting that you mentioned this too, of course, with the EU and the introduction of different countries into that; I was reading about George Soros, I think he was referred to or known for breaking the Bank of England, and he was even connected with helping to break the Swedish currency back in 1992, to help to devalue the crowns or the krona, the currency that we have here. And many claim that this was the financial trouble, when this was implemented that this helped to spur people - out of fear, of course - to go into the European Union, to prevent things like this happening again.


Alan: That's right. They create the problem and offer the solution.


Henrik: And it's very interesting that during that time, our Prime Minister was called Bilt, and he, of course, is a Bilderberger, the same as George Soros at that time, and there are a few connections here. That could be obscure in that sense again, but again it seem so implement the idea that these guys are cooperating up there on that level, because they know that they want to introduce the European uniting as a first step, and in order for that to happen we need to have some kind of destabilised situation in those countries that are financially strong or don't have a reason to enter these unions.


Alan: That's right. It's more the public that need to be convinced, the elite are all in on the game, and George Soros is basically a front-man for the Rothschilds anyway. The Rothschilds not only run the system, the Bank of England, which is their treasury in a sense, but they also still have private banks for lending, as well, and Mister Soros wouldn't make a move without permission from his boss. However, Soros did write a half page on how he did it in the British newspapers a few years ago, openly boasting that he and two friends did it all on the phone, they chose to buy lots of bonds then drop them all, panicked the Bank of England and that the Bank of England had to borrow from the international bankers, which also includes the Rothschilds again, to keep themselves afloat, to devalue the pound. So not only do they do it, they boast about it. However, the very fact that Mister Soros is not only walking around today, free, and in one piece tells you he was authorised by the establishment itself, or he wouldn't be walking anywhere.


Henrik: That's right. Again, it's so easy, because we fool ourselves into believing that there are people having control over this, or regulating it, or being able to prevent it. I think that again we have to remind everyone - and I have to do that myself - that we are living in their system: they created it, they set that up, and it doesn't matter, in that sense, what we do, as long as we keep fighting within that system, because they control it.


Alan: This is theirs, this is a psychopathic structure which we've been trained to believe is reality because we've been born into it, the same as our parents before us. There's nothing humane in the system whatsoever.


Henrik: Oh my. I was thinking about, going back again to the Bilderbergers, Prince Bernard, and I think his daughter, Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands, have been referred as the glue that holds the Bilderberg group together. What's your take on what their particular role in all of this is?


Alan. Well, Bernard, sure, he was so well known, he was a supporter of the Natzis.


Henrik: Do you know if he was a former Natzi officer?


Alan: I know he had a uniform given to him, but most of them did. Even Prince Philip, the Queen of England's husband, his father, I've still got the photographs here of his father, who was also given an SS uniform by the Natzis. Lots of them wore the Natzi uniform, and had been awarded it by the German Reichstag. They're all part of the same families at the top. They’re all related to each other. You read in history of all the great experiments, the American Revolution with the constitution was called an experiment. The next thing that they did was that they also gave a form of democracy to other countries in Europe, including England, and they observed that. Then they gave communism to Russia, and observed that. Each one in history, by the great historians, the great authors, is called an experiment, and they watched all forms of it to see which was the best way, not to help the people, but to control the people. In their own books they say that this from the big groups, like the Club of Rome, and so on, they say that the best one that they observed was communism, because for an elite group to run it efficiently and quickly and make rapid changes, communism was the best way. Therefore, they're amalgamating democracy and fascism, really, with communism to make the “third way” as Albert Toffler called it in his book. They're bringing together for the next era, fascism at the top, that's public and private corporations, government and private business, international business tied together with a communistic bureaucracy A parallel government outside of it all, they can make rapid decisions and have them rapidly implemented without the slowness of regular bureaucracies. That's the system that's in place today.


Henrik: Do you know if at that time a few countries have been named as these first experimenters? Because I know that Sweden in some elements was known as the next developing stage after the collapse, or before, I guess, but before the Soviet Union collapsed, in it's first incarnation at least. But I know that Sweden was mentioned as that kind of political system. Have you heard about that?


Alan: Yes, they did. They observed Sweden and they made a lot of changes there that were different from other countries, the big promoters from the 1800’s in fact, like H. G. Wells, into the 1900s, Bertrand Russell and others, basically formed the kind of school system you'd have, where you would promote early sexual contact and see what effect it would have, if it could possibly destroy the family, so they used Sweden and Denmark – that was another prototype for the method to be introduced, to the schooling system too, to give a lot of communistic ideas without going the whole way into the totalitarian type regime.


Henrik: Yes, that's right, there seems to be a kind of meandering about and in a way I can see that a socialist mind is very popularly promoted in the media, within the cultural movement, there's a hint of it, but it's not fully drawn to the extent as in the Soviet Union, but the mentality of it, or the thought of it is seen to lurk beneath the surface, so to speak.


Alan: Yes, and also it did have a desired effect, because they wanted to destroy the family unit. It was very useful to them for a long, long time, since the days of the early Catholic Church and feudalism, which came in to Europe at the same time hand in hand. They had to destroy the family unit that had served its purpose and so they gave factions and promoted a separateness from the females, who would be given a slightly different chip on their shoulder than the males would have, which would cause dissention amongst people, making it almost impossible for them to stay together. It was a training ground, you might say, with a lot of psychology and observation involved to see the effects, to see how it could be improved and implemented elsewhere.


Henrik: Yes, and I say it again, I keep returning to that: it's their system and they set it up and they experiment with it, and in a way we shouldn't be surprised that this is going on.


Alan: Not at all, not at all. And not only that; the CIA started up a lot, in fact most of the left-wing organisations that are known in the US, and that the people are battling over, with right-wing and left-wing, it's now admitted that most of the left-wing organisations, especially in the culture creation industry, are run completely by the CIA and MI6. They not only did that, they also had seventy offices around the world, including Sweden, and are heavily involved in the creation of the entertainment side, which gives you the ideas that the children follow in Sweden.


Henrik: So, as long as people are on the first level, where we can even have a system more socialistic, in a way, from the people up to the representatives of the people, but as long as there's a group above them or working behind the scenes, it doesn't matter, in a way, what the people have as long as they believe that they have the power to choose and to pick.


Alan: That's right. You think you've got the power of choices - they even in fact give you more choices, and it doesn't take much because people don't think through all of the choices: they jump on the choices, thinking it's freeing them - but actually it's enslaving them and dividing them in another way.


Henrik: I can even flood the amount of choices that are being made, meaning that the more we have to choose and pick, because I know a few years ago when they privatised up here the telephone industry, the electric market, and we have different companies coming in and taking over different parts of the electric grid, and stuff like this, you know what it's about, with your tremendous freedom, where you can choose between company A and company B, but all that happened eventually is that people were fed up of making all the choices, so they just handed it over, anyway.


Alan: You see, socialism is a great con, it always was a great con. Now they're so arrogant, they're publishing a lot of their declassified information from government departments on all of this, and the strategy was: they knew that they'd have to build countries up with electricity, water supplies, all the infrastructure that you see around you, they had to build it up, and rather than getting their own money involved initially, they gave you socialism in western Europe, and all countries, including Britain, the taxpayers have funded all of the infrastructure: the roads, everything. The electric company, it's all nationalised. And in would come the Conservatives after it and say it was just so inefficient, now it's all paid for by the public, and they sell it for peanuts to their friends. It was all planned before it started. This happens over and over again, and the public has never learned, because there's no interfamily history any more to tap our wisdom, to pass on what happened 30/40/50 years ago. There's no grandmother to say, “wait a minute, this is what happened then, it's the same con,” so they've fooled every generation very simply by the same techniques.


Henrik: And we attend the schools that they set up, and it's mandatory to go there, to go into that learning system and many people are thinking this is a privilege when it's the other way around, it's actually hurting their creativity, their spirituality, but they're actually being trained just as another brick in the wall, as it were.


Alan: They are programmed for the changes in their life, which they will accept. That's how carefully it is. The children are literally programmed by the year now, as they go into kindergarten. Beria, who was the chief of the NKVD in Russia in 1934 gave a talk on intergenerational changes that they were creating, and he said then to the Comintern, the international communist committee, (which the future prime minister of Canada attended since he was head of the Communist Party at that time, Pierre Trudeau,) and Beria said it used to take 70 years to indoctrinate changes through the children into society before you could see them accepting it, he said now with scientific indoctrination we can make rapid changes every five years and eventually it will be by the year. What he meant was a kindergarten child went in, has been taught scientifically indoctrinations which will be completely different from the society of its parents, so that he will accept the changes that he's been indoctrinated in without question as he goes through life. And the ones the following year are even a bit more further forward than him, and so on and so on.


Henrik: Quicker and quicker.


Alan: It's so precise.


Henrik: Do you think some of these rulers up there might be looking upon previous civilisations as they rose and fell and looking upon those as models, and in a way admiring them, but the only problem with them was that they did fall and, okay, they're incarnated all the time, and they take new shapes, and it's not that black and white; that they are there and just disappear.  Do you think that they would have the philosophical aspect to all of this that we need to have a time for all this kind of experimentation to actually develop a method to be able to with that knowledge, then later be able to implement a civilisation, or an empire, that actually will last and being able to be also flexible, because some of these previous ones weren't that flexible - and then when the people changed, the empire collapsed - but what they're looking for is an empire that will be flexible with the people. That's why, with what you were referring to, that they can change every ten years, every one year, every five years, or whatever, to be able to be flexible.


Alan: They themselves have no compassion for ordinary people, they see themselves literally as a separate species. All psychopaths do, especially inbred psychopaths, they do know they're different, and they do know their need, up until the present, to have the working people to do all their work for them, we bring into being all of the plans they want to come. However, they have already planned a future where they will take the base material – when we talk about the base material, we're talking about ordinary people – and they will perfect them to different types of specialised humans for specific tasks. That way, when we're all chipped and we don't think for ourselves, and we can't think at all for ourselves, and as an individual – they've written a lot about when they'll have no more problems; their only worry so far is those who are aware in each generation, who are able to communicate what's really happening to the others, which often overthrows them – that's why they give us bread in the circuses in the days of Rome.  Huxley said the only reason the previous elite fell – and they didn't fall, by the way, they always moved before they fell – he said the reason why those civilisations fell was that the elite couldn't provide enough bread at the circuses for the people. Now, that's why sports, and all this stuff, and massive television entertainment is put out in this present phase: it's to keep us all mesmerised, occupied and stupid and dumb, as they roll ahead with this agenda, because they will bring in the ultimate solution, which is their words, and that's the brain-chip. Their only problem then is can they themselves, who really create power, all keep cooperating at the top?


Henrik: That's right, because I think there is a lot of infighting going on at the top, don't you think, also?


Alan: Yes. Psychopaths have a great ability to act their way through life, and they do act their way through life, they can be tremendously cordial to each other when they have to combine, but within themselves each one really strives for a higher power, it's the side-effect of being a psychopath, you might say. That is also their other problem. However, they've even talked about ways to monitor each other – not with a brain chip, but in the form of a cap. They do have this technology, by the way, they can read your thoughts, there's no doubt about it – classified from the Pentagon: they have this equipment. They can actually read people's thoughts, they can insert thoughts into a person, but it can also read your thoughts as you're thinking, and if it detects anything which it's been programmed is wrong or deviant or whatever, it can send it back to the recipient and then you will change your mind on something.


Henrik: Oh, there we go! Isn't that nice?


Alan: They rectify you as you walk.


Henrik: This is nothing new, as you say, they have the technology. I've put up a new story a few weeks ago that actually talked about a toy, developed over in China or Japan, that actually responded to your brainwaves and could pick up on what you're thinking.


Alan: I gave a talk on all the declassified stuff and named it all with all the references from the Pentagon a couple of weeks ago, and this stuff does exist. Now, the elite have said they could wear a kind of a ring or a cap, something you can put on and off, which would basically be able to keep each other in a cooperative frame of mind, to stop them from turning on each other when there are no more enemies.


Henrik: Oh, my. It's the 'one ring', reminiscent of Sauron and all that.


Alan: It's also written in the book, the last novel by Arthur C. Clarke, who gave us the agenda with their religion in it actually, in a space form: in A Space Odyssey 2001, 2010 and 3001, those are the ones who run the world in those days, the elite will have this kind of ring they can put on and off – they'll be able to take it on and off. In order to cooperate, wicked thoughts will be rectified before they act on them.


Henrik: Alan, I think that's a great way to round things up for this time, and I want to again thank you so much for coming on, it's always a great pleasure to have you on, but as usual before we go, for potential new listeners out there, people who aren't aware of you, your work and your website and all this stuff that you have on there for us, tell us about it before we finish up here.


Alan: They can go into and for lots of free downloads on a lot of these topics. I give the references to the stuff, I don't speculate: if you speculate you will belong to the conspiracy theorists, I just give you the facts, written by the elite themselves, from dry, dusty, boring books, and I also have a couple of things for sale, that are my own books and videos that you can buy as well.


Henrik: By the way, Alan, before we finish up I want to ask you, I guess you have a few DVDs out there, are you producing any more of those?


Alan: Yes, this summer I am going to churn a bunch of them out.


Henrik: That's good, that's a great way also to communicate these days when many people, there's a lot of material out there and one of the ways to deliver it, beyond radio, is in videos, so that's a good idea, I think.


Alan: Especially in a day when we're reading less and less. We don't have the concentration now; we're only trained to watch television, so sometimes it helps it to stick in your mind what you're actually saying.


Henrik: Yes, and I guess if we are to communicate this message to more people we have to also use the mediums or the methods that are available to people, so I think that's a great way to do it. Alan, thank you so much for coming on, it has been a pleasure, as I said, and we will continue next month.


Alan: Will do, thank you.


Henrik: Thank you so much.